8-29-10
There really aren't any commercial eventing barns close to Saratoga. Larkin Hill/Margie Hutchison in North Chatham (indoor+some xc) is about an hour away. Marcia Kulak is in Scotia/Glenville, so maybe 30-40 minutes, but no indoor & she goes to FL for the winter... maybe not what fits for an academic schedule? Chestnut Ridge in Cambridge is 45+ minutes for Skidmore, but does have an indoor and some xc options. Dressage barns are Bishop's Gate/Jeff Lindberg (20-30 min) and DaCory/Emma Griffen is pretty close, prob 10 minutes. There are other dressage (depends if you want a resident trainer) and also H/J barns nearby.

8-29-10
Maybe try posting on the Chronicle of the Horse Forums -- there was an Army officer (stationed at West Point) who evented Area I a couple years ago, but I think she has since been posted to Oklahoma or some such. To me, it looked like Class A blouse/shirt with helmet and breeches, but I can't be certain. Good luck -- love to see the uniform out there!

8-28-10
UNH still has stabling available. Also, check with Danielle at DeMeritt Hill Farm, she may have some stalls available, and is less than 2 miles from UNH. Liz Oertel

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8-25-10
I would recommend two places. One is Iron Gate Farm in Epping. It's 15 minutes from UNH, has big airy stalls and some turnout. They will clean the stall for you. The other place is Winning Ways in Dover.

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8-25-10
I have stall available. Please contact Karen at Linden Woods Farm

8-18-10
I went on Endurance Day to visit friends doing the GMHA 3 day. What a great experience. Would love to do it someday.

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8-18-10
Agreed! It was amazing - I learned so much and had a great time. Thanks to everyone who helped put this event together! Margot

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8-18-10
I agree! Thank-you GMHA for giving us this wonderful experience to learn about the long format. I hope we can do it next year. Nancy Read

8-18-10
We had Phyllis Dawson booked, but didn't get enough entries to hold the clinic. We try to rotate who we get in each year so people get a chance to ride with a variety of people. Thanks for your interest! Jenny B

8-12-10
Hi Celia, I think the best thing to do is to contact the original surgeon or surgical team and get a timeline from them. Each horse has different rehab schedules based on the surgical procedure performed, and the general health, age and fitness level of the horse. That being said, every horse I've known that had colic surgery has been given the same initial rehab rules: after hospital discharge, one month of stall rest with hand walking 30 minutes 2x/day. Then, one month of small paddock turnout. Then one month of large paddock turnout. Then begin riding at the walk, with the vet's approval, 3 months after surgery. Sounds like you are already going quite a bit faster than this schedule (riding at 6 weeks post-op?). Hopefully this is with the permission of your vet and/or surgeon, but I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to jump within the initial 3 months post-op. Treating your horse with kid gloves after a colic surgery is absolutely appropriate and will give you the best long-term results. Good luck! Mary Piro

8-13-10
Hi Mary oh yes all of this is being done with the permission of Dr. Davis. Although he had a displacement, we caught it very quickly so no damage was done. He was very fit going into it and that helped him pull through very quickly. He's being an excellent patient and aside from the odd spook has been very good. I was just wondering what people did as a work out program when told that they can now trot and so on. 5mins sets for? how long. Thanks for your input though Celia Donovan

8-13-10
I did my first training at the august Huntington horse trials, it was a great experience for me. King oak, valinor and ENDYCTA are also very fair move-up courses. I agree to stay away from fitchs and stuart as a move up, and are better to save for when you are confident going training and want more of a challenge.

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8-12-10
Kent is a very easy training. King oak is also a nice one to move up at. Stonleigh is pretty strait forward-i did my first training there a few years ago. Groton is pretty nice as well...they have a few difficult things but nothing too big...think about that as you 2nd or 3rd one ...I would definatly stay away from Stuart and Fitches corner your first year if you dont want anything big and technical....UNH and Millbrook horse trials are right in the middle and you may want to concider them a well!! good luck!!

8-12-10
Hello. Thank the person below for the kind words! Yes, my name is Mark, and I was the warm up steward for both Fitch's and Millbrook Horse Trials. Hopefully everyone had a good time, and was entertained by my barefoot antics! I aim to entertain, and am glad I didn't have to beat anyone too badly at either event. I will likely be working them again next year (the downside of doing a good job!), so I hope to see you all then! Cheers - Mark Wertheim (845)492-1886 thaduke2003@hotmail.com

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8-12-10
His name is Mark Wertheim. He's a great guy. Send me a note, and if it's alright with him, I can give you his email address. Jocelyn@start-box.com Jocelyn

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8-12-10
Mark Wertheim

8-10-10
I would second Katherine on that. Warren is remarkable with young horses. Mary McEachern

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8-5-10
I would recommend Warren Myer at Star Lit Hollow Farm in Brentwood, NH. He is a really great horseman and will put very good basics on a youngster. Very knowledgable and very calm persona. Katherine Cooper

8-9-10
Hi Elizabeth- I don't have time to tell you ALL the reasons the long format is so important, fun, educational and exciting but I will say, the long format is just about the most important, fun, educational, exciting thing you can do with your horse. ;) The training and fitness work that goes into preparing a horse for a long format is like none other. The hours spent in the saddle go toward increasing and improving a rider's connection with her horse. We must have a solid understanding of the horse's health and way of thinking. We must learn to recognize very subtle signs of stress or of jubilation in our horses. We must pay very close attention to every aspect of their well-being, far more so than if the horse is just competing in short format horse trials or even what they are calling CCI's nowadays (which in my mind aren't). To me, the loss of the long format was a great travesty. By not having to prepare for the long, riders are missing out on huge elements of education which in turn, I BELIEVE, are making these folks riders, not horsemen. Personally, I prefer to be a horseman than simply a rider. I am ENORMOUSLY grateful to those wise and generous people who are working to bring the long back. Those riders who are entering into the world long format are doing themselves and their horses a huge favor! Hope this helps. :) Polly

7-29-10
I think there are easier prelim courses in Area I, but UNH is fair and moderate. The current route gives the horses a chance to gallop before getting into the twisty turny woods sections, which is helpful. I would recommend you do the Amy Barrington clinic August 21-22 if you want to do that as your first prelim.

8-1-10
Thanks for the information on the UNH prelim course. I will look into the Amy Barrington clinic. You mentioned more appropriate move up prelim courses...what would you recommend?

Cinnabar (Wajima's Lark),    April 20, 1984 - July 30, 2010
Beloved friend to me for 15 years, and to my other horse of 8 years, his best buddy Marrakesch
He lived a full and rich life, from flat racing to steeplechasing to hunting to eventing
He never stopped galloping or wanting to jump - and did so even his last day
before a colic affecting his small intestine ended his life
Rest in Peace, Dear Fluffy

8-1-10
I'm so sorry for your loss. What a beautiful horse.

7-29-10
I saw them the first day but now the website has been acting up. I did email Brian and am awaiting his response. Judy Caffrey / First Go Farm

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7-29-10
The website is connecticutphoto.com. On the homepage there is a link that says 'view online prints' which will take you to the page they are on. It asks for a password which you can also find on the connecticut photo website. Hope that helps :)

7-28-10
I am also in CT and the assessment on my 1990 Kingston tripled from last year. Seriously? The trailer is 20 years old and probably not worth a lot anyway! The assessment on our 2005 Honda Pilot also increased from last year. They blame that one on the cash for clunkers thing and that there is a shortage of SUV's. You probably won't have any luck with the tax assessor's office, but it is worth the appeal. 2 years ago I had to take pictures of my trailer because they had not clue what it was! Good luck!

7-20-10
Someone at my barn uses a piece of that tacky, waffly material used as shelf liners and non-slip pads under carpet runners. You can find rolls of it at Target, WalMart, hardware stores, craft stores, etc.

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7-19-10
A string mohair girth worked on my haflinger. Bought it from Double G in Maine - CHEAP. Make sure it is real wool and not synthetic fiber. The synthetics are slippery.

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7-15-10
You can try one of those rubber no-slip pads from Nunn Finer - I used to use one on my round pony and it was very effective.

7-20-10
This is wonderful! I was always backed off on paying basically $100.00 per class at a USDF recognized show with all the non member fees. Now, this type of class is very inviting and cost effective.

7-19-10
Ditto. Riga Meadows put on a great event! The organizers and volunteers did a fantastic job and everyone was so friendly and helpful. I will come back next year too! Nancy

7-19-10
Thanks to all for your interest. We are filled up and are looking forward to a great experience at the GMHA Three Day. Best of luck to all. Anne

7-15-10
I also want to thank everyone! Even in the rain it was a great day. Can't wait to se pictures!

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7-15-10
I can't say enough good things about this event. Beautiful location, fabulous showjumping ring and course, wonderfully run and reasonably priced to enter. If you havn't been there you should try it. Thank you to all at ENYDCTA for a wonder show!!

6-30-10
From what I understand the 'loss of forward motion' resulting in jumping penalties on x-country means that the horse has to stop all forward motion (ie. stand still). This was done to discourage attempts to jump from a stand still.

6-30-10
A huge thank you for a super competition at Groton House this past weekend! I believe the event may have generously waved the parking fee for truck-ins as well. Katie

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6-30-10
kudos to ann, sarah and the entire groton house farm team for 2 weekends of really great events.thanks so much for everything. barbara brown

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6-30-10
Kudos to GHF, you always out do yourself, the courses, settings, organizers & volunteers. I had an AWESOME time, even though I had to wd just before stadium ;( The weather was hot, but bearable, would have not asked for anything different. We the riders could have not asked for anything better from the organizers and volunteers, they are always great and are there to help in any way possible. Looking forward to many more years at GHF. Sharon D

6-28-10
Yes, Danny McInerny. I've known him since 7th grade. Send another posting with your email address and I'll send you his info.

6-30-10
if you wouldn't mind leaving me your email, i will contact you directly to get his information...i don't like to leave personal things like that in a public space, thank you for your help

6-30-10
Just make up a temporary email address/account, if you don't want the one you normally used posted online (for example, myquestion@yahoo.com). Business' contact info can't be posted here. You can reach me at randells1@comcast.net.

6-28-10
Yes, Danny McInerny. I've known him since 7th grade. Send another posting with your email address and I'll send you his info.

6-25-10
Yes, thank you Great Vista organizers and volunteers!

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6-21-10
I concur. Thanks to all who made this event possible. It is absolutely a beautiful and quiet setting. If you haven't made it there yet, add it to your calendar! They are making improvements on a regular basis. Lovely, fun, challenging courses and wonderful dressage arenas! Sammy

6-21-10
Mare Magic is raspberry leaves. From suggestion and then use on my mare it works wonders! and its less than $10 a month! way cheaper than regimate.

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6-21-10
My mare has the same issue. I went to the health food store (because it is cheaper) and bought Rasberry Leaf in bulk. I add that to her feed every day, about 1/3 of a handful. It has not totally fixed the issue, but it has helped her. She still squeals at the boys, but she is not so touchy and crabby with me. She is also on Smart Calm Ultra by smart pak, but that is more for her nervous behavior. I took her off both for 2 weeks and it was a VERY BAD two weeks. I have another friend that has her mare on the wendels herbs, and that had a good effect on her equine, really elped witht he heat cycles. Another friend uses regumate, I believe that that stops them from coming into heat, but I am not sure. Best of luck! Cyndi

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6-21-10
Evitex! 100% natural chasteberry in a liquid form (so the efficacy is 100% consistent unlike dry herbs). My mare would have terrible heat cycles and would actually colic as a result. I was told to put her on Regumate or spay her. With a little investigation I discovered Emerald Valley Equine and Evitex. Unlike other products, it was safe to handle, easy to feed. She’s been on Evitex for 7 years now and it has made a HUGE difference. While the gallon is not cheap, it lasts almost 4 months. I put Min on in the spring and taper her off of it in the fall. Good luck with your mare. Mary McEachern

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6-21-10
I use regu-mate. It's expensive (close to $300 a bottle) but it really does good when they are in heat! good luck and maybe talk to your vet about it there are probably other options

6-17-10
Hi Whitney..We've had a Hawk 2 horse gooseneck for 7 years. It's a great trailer. We've had no problems with it. Sue

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6-15-10
We also have a 2002 Sundowner gooseneck, and Sundowner warrantees their frames for 8 years. We just had our whole floor replaced, due corrosion of the aluminum. Sundowner was applying a bedliner product to the floor, and instead of protecting the floor, it allowed water, urine, and wet shavings to get stuck in between the bedliner product and aluminum, thus corroding the aluminum. They paid for the replacement of the whole floor, and they do stand behind their product. Yes, they did make some design mistakes, but they are taking responsibility for them. All in all, I think you have to have any used trailer you purchase inspected by someone knowledgeable before you purchase it. Marion Quigley

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6-15-10
Thank you for your information I think I will just stay away from Sundowners! (: Cathy

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6-15-10
I too have been very disappointed with sundowner and the dealer where I purchased it. After being given a total run around, I took it to someone who was completely uninvolved - they pulled all that black coating off and thoroughly checked the frame and the floor. My trailer was fine but I have seen some of the bad ones and they are scary. They pull so well and are so great for big horses but if you are going to buy one be sure you have it checked out first. That black coating needs to removed as the urine penetrates it and causes the rot.

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6-15-10
Yup, it is the ValueLite line -- the aluminum bodies over steel frames. I owned a 2000 model, and discovered this the hard way. I was told (by a Sundowner dealer) that 1999 through at least 2005 models were affected. Luckily mine was caught before horses were injured, although I did have pieces of frame separating from each other. I now have an all-aluminum trailer from another manufacturer.

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6-15-10
I have a 2003 Sundowner gooseneck trailer and (knock on wood), is not rusting or falling apart. The only small issue, is in the dressing room, where you can see the sidewall is starting to bubble and shed from the carpet up about 6 inches, and about 2' long. I am not a clean/neat freak either, so the trailer is not cleaned out as much as it should be and it stays outside weathered by New England year round. It was a good investment, and if the only thing "wrong" with it, is the small issue of the inside wall peeling then I say I have definately got my monies worth.... so far :)

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6-15-10
Cathy - the change happened in the late 1990's and has never been fixed. Sadly, the manufacturer refuses to stand behind their product and there have been a lot of problems with trailer body literally separating from the frame. It is very scary to see. That being said, I have a 1995/1996 Sundowner gooseneck and love it. It has been a wonderful trailer and I have never had an issue. Now that I am looking to upgrade, I have been warned to steer clean of all Sundowners unless they are my trailer's age. I can put you in touch with someone who knows a lot about this if you'd like: info@murphyeventing.com Katie

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6-15-10
I would never buy a Sundowner again. I have had many trailers and would not trust the Sundowner. Especially the floors etc. I had to have mine completely replaced.

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6-15-10
The Sundowner Valuelites are the models with the problems. The steel frames rust out and Sundowner does not stand behind them. The Sunlite all aluminium trailers do not have the same problems.

6-17-10
Hey folks....next time you are at the next event, thank your show secretary or horse trial organizer! Give them a big smile and tell them what a great job they do! If you have ever been in their shoes you would know how much work it entails...even with a modern technology! It is often a thankless job with many complaints and little "special requests", add that all together when you are trying to process over 200 entries and schedule the darn thing while trying to keep everyone happy. Show Secretaries and HT organizers....I halt and salute to you!

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6-17-10
I dont know if I'm the only one that feels this way, but complaining about event entry waitlists is getting pretty old. It is done at random. There are plenty of events in area 1, especially for the lower levels. Enough said.

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6-17-10
Did you even read the response from the Area 1 chariman about the previous rant? Perhaps you should be more educated before posting such nonsense.

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6-17-10
Enough people! We should be thankful that these events are able to run and put on these fabulous events for us. I am thrilled that UNH/GMHA/Groton House were over full. It is disappointing when you don't get in but let's stop complaining and think about volunteering at an event. It might make you appreciate how hard these people work to put on these shows and stop these complaints. We need to be good, appreciative competitors. There are lots of events that aren't full so when you don't get in to the one you want, enter another. Let's support the sport of eventing and stop bashing them! Alison Eastman

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6-17-10
There was an explanation posted about what happened at GMHA, and most likely the same thing has happened at UNH. It was simply an issue with the evententries.com not updating properly, not an issue with people ACTUALLY missing things. Of coarse, now I don't see the notice posted on the home page... but that's what I remember reading. (The notice is also on this BB, the first response to the original post. Webmaster)

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6-17-10
Let's stop slamming on events! Getting wait listed sometimes is part of the deal. I know it sucks, but it comes with the game! It is a huge ordeal to organize these things and I think we need to be thankful we have the shows we do and not second guessing why they do things and who they let in... and yes...I've gotten wait listed several times before!

6-17-10
If you examine the Area 1 calendar, there are 37 events scheduled (I didn't count EW CT which was canceled and the FEH competition). Of these events, only 6-8 are multiple day weekend shows (UNH Spring (Fall?), GMHA, Groton House, GVDRC, Stuarts, Millbrook, and the GMHA 3D). Very few start outside the weekend -usually on Thurs or Friday (Millbrook, Stuarts and GMHA 3D) and these events are not what we usually see in Area 1 -Stuart HT and Millbrook run */** or Advanced divisions and GMHA 3D is a Training and Novice long format (Yeah for the 3Day!! Oh So Happy...sorry, I digress). GMHA and Groton House are events that should be experienced over 2 days..they hold so much history for Area 1 (sorry, never been to UNH). As someone mentioned, Fitchs used to be 2 days and it appears they are running divisions on one day this year.
So, you have approximately 30 events (over 80%) to chose from in Area 1 that are held on one day. Not bad. (Some one may want to check my review- I did this late at night. And I must get up early in the AM to go to work). I agree it is tough to event when you work during the week but many of the people I meet at events work, full or part time. Some are students with heavy course loads. Many have families. It is what we do. We love the sport and find the time to train and compete. As for the cost, recognized horse trials are expensive to hold and cutting costs (I'm sure) is not an option. I'm speaking out of turn since I don't organize a recognized horse trial but there are costs for items I'm sure you (as a competitor) would not want to do without: EMTs, TDs, Judges, Vet. The recognized trials are held to a standard and that standard costs money. I love schooling shows but there is a reason there is such a range in the quality. I have been told that events don't make money and I can understand why.

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6-15-10
Funny you say this because I prefer 2 day events, but have a hard time finding them for BN level. I work during the week too (longer than 9-5 to boot!), but for me that hasn't anything to do with it. (I don't have kids, which helps) I just prefer not to rush when I get there, I like to give my horse a break, I like to have plenty of time to walk the course. I know a lot of people on both sides of this preference.

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6-15-10
Actually, many events this year are running divisions all on one day--e.g. Stoneleigh runs over 2 days, but each division runs all 3 phases on one day, and they are charging per night instead of for the whole weekend for stabling. Fitch's Corner is the same, I believe. As for cost, there are many more licensed officials that have to get paid at a sanctioned event, as well as requirements for how fences are built (eg frangible pins) that raise expenses. Nobody is making a huge profit by running an event!

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6-15-10
To many of us it seems that the trend is going more towards 1 day events and less towards 2 or 3 day events. When a rider moves up towards training and preliminary levels, the one day events are much more taxing on both horse and rider. There are many events in area 1 that run over one day. Those would therefore be the better choice for someone like you, looking to keep your busy schedule at a minimum. As far as cost- these events make almost ZERO money. They have to pay a judge or judges, TD, feed volunteers, pay USEA fees for running the event, build jumps, paint show jumps, buy and set up dressage rings, put in new footing for rings, mow, fuel for mowers, trucks, tractors, gravel for XC footing, porter potties, etc. I think I made my point.
Most events are actually increasing their event fees because of the high expense of running these events. Schooling shows are much less expensive because they don't need TD's, rated judges, 4-5 dressage rings, 3-4 XC courses, and aren't USEA rated (no USEA fees), etc. The administrative fee goes to the person that spends HOURS checking hundreds of entries, organizing them, putting them in divisions, honoring each individual competitors requests, organizing rings, multiple horses, stabling, who's missing $5, who forgot their coggins, late entries and missing signatures. Again, I think I made my point. Lots of people do a lot to make these events the enjoyable, beautiful and smoothly run competitions that they are. J Gilbert

6-17-10
I have been on both ends of this, competing my cheap ride and borrowing a very nice 8 y/o ISH. Being able to compete on a expensive horse does not mean you will compete well you have to be able to ride that huge thing! Respect those riders, no matter how jealous we are. I will be the first to admit that i can't ride as well as others and when someone else gets on whose been riding a lot longer than i have, you can see how much better the horse looks. Stop making this a petty sport and be happy with what you've got and be happy for others when they compete well. Congratulate your competitors and be happy that everyone on the showgrounds is there because they're passionate about the sport as a hobby or job and realize your there because of that to. Just enjoy it we're all in it for a good ride

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6-13-10
I just wanted to chime in here. I have one of those fancy, flashy warmbloods that has lots of mileage. I can tell you, there is really no prejudice in breeding or horse type. I have been the recipient of dressage scores ranging from a high of 54 to a record low of 32.5. My recommendation is that you video your test and review it and the judges remarks with your (a) dressage trainer. They can help you assess your progress and what you need to do to get better scores. Suzanne Adams

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6-11-10
Fancy horse vrs backyard horse is irrelevant. I have been eventing for 30 years and until recently I have never spent more than 5,000 for a horse and have had success competing at the lower levels. You can achieve a great score with a "3" moving horse. If you were accurate and the horse was "through" but take that same test and riding against another set of horses . If the competition was accurate and through and had better moving horses your great score from last week may put you in the bottom this week. Different shows have different levels of competition and attract a different caliber of riders and horses. Look at the horses at Millbrook, Fitchs and then go to Mystic or Kent. You will see a big difference. Another important point. Eventing is for people who fall in love with the learning process and believe they can always improve and who don't blame their "bad day" on their horse or the judge. Take responsibility for the gaps in your training and go work on them. Hold a critical mirror up to you and do the best with what you have - whether that is a 2,500 horse or a 25,000 horse. Jen

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6-11-10
Well, this is the first year my 13 year old daughter is showing at sanctioned events so she is starting at BN. Our horse is a gorgeous (I am so biased, sorry!)appendix qtrhorse, not your typical dressage horse and certainly not built for it. My daughter has been taking dressage lessons for a few months but it was only weeks before her first event that things "clicked" and the both of them were looking good and collected. She worked very hard from that point on to practice collection, proper striding and accuracy in preparation for the first show. All that prep resulted in a score of 31 at the show and second place. I was ecstatic. At schooling shows she was consistently showing in the high 30's, low 40's. I would hope that she was judged on her and her horse's ability, because she certainly did not have the most expensive horse in the group nor the typical dressagey type horse. She and her partner worked very hard for that score and it showed in her placing. My point is that we do not have the most expensive flashy horse, we do not have a horse that is built for dressage, but we did have a rider/horse combination that "got" it, practiced and was rewarded with a great score. Josie

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6-11-10
I disagree that dressage scores are based upon expensive horses. I've been competing for the last three years at beginner novice, and while some judges score an entire class more harshly or less harshly, I find that across Area I the scores are fair and reflect the rider & horse's capabilities. If you are disappointed in your scores at an event, enter a dressage only competition on the USDF schooling show circuit. If you find consistency in comments (i.e. impulsion, submission, movement quality), then you know there are things for you & your horse to work on. Lisa Hida

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6-10-10
I don't agree with you at all. I have not seen this for myself. As someone who has competed a "less fancy" horse, and done quite well and actually beaten all the "fancy" horses, I can say this isn't happening in our sport. That's why I love our sport. We can take a backyard horse and still go out and do very well. At the risk of sounding mean or condescending, I wonder how much experience the original poster has. Perhaps you haven't learned enough yet to truly understand what the judge is really looking for. I know it took me a long time to fully understand what is being asked at each level and how best to achieve it.

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6-10-10
I agree. Any BN level rider shoutl NOT be expected to put a horse on the bit. It's upsetting when you see a horse go in the ring round and in a prelim frame but the rider performs the movements at F instead of A....BN should be all about accuracy of the test and the begining of acceptance of aids...it is unfair. Some judges however, do not really know what they are looking at...they dont know what a correct horse looks like. As a Prelim level rider it frustrates me when i see a horse go in the ring that looks very correct and up and they get a 40 but the next rider gets a 30 and there horses nose is in the dirt...thats incorrect. I totally agree.

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6-10-10
One of the greatest things I love about eventing is that each competition shows an assessment of the training behind each horse/rider team, and is not necessarily always a competition between fellow competitors. It's always fun to go out and place well, and to do that a dressage score has to be a very impressive test (regardless of which level you're riding). It's also easier to get a better dressage score on a horse that is naturally more suited to dressage, but that does not mean a horse less expensive or flashy can't score well. Point in case, I showed first level dressage with a small quarter horse, he would never move like some of the warmbloods he competed against but was very competitive and often times placed well. The small details made the difference, as he was very steady, correct and accurate. He really wasn't too into jumping, so eventing wasn't his thing, but it taught me if a little quarter horse could do a prelim test well, there was no excuse for not doing the home work necessary behind putting together a solid test, regardless of natural ability of the horse.

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6-10-10
I agree alexis. even the adults who are just starting out beg novice are getting scored harsh. i saw that when i was just at groton house schooling two phase. there were some people who had nicer horses, but tests weren't accurate. and they did better. i agree. all horses should be judged the same at beg novice. not on how fancy they are. n/a

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6-10-10
well, I understand the perception, but I have to say that whenever I've scribed, an accurate ride has always scored better than a fancy horse. Now, if you can combine the two...you get an outstanding score! Accuracy can be difficult for green horses and riders, but getting a good 20 meter circle, keeping your horse relaxed, steady and supple, and riding a really straight line is just as hard on a fancy horse as a less fancy one. No horse "knows" these movements. Even the most eaperienced horse will wander around the dressage ring if not ridden well, and may in fact anticipate movements and be more tense. Don't get discouraged: keep practicing and honing your skills and you might just be surprised at how much you and your horse accomplish. Anne

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6-10-10
It sounds from your post like you are seeing GOOD judging. Horses with "more mileage" and who are moving "fancy" are going to score better than green horses or those with poor movement. While it is true that some horses are born with better self carriage and a nicer style of movement than others, the purpose of dressage is to bring out the best movement of the horse and to train them to use themselves to the best of their ability. While some people are lucky to be able to buy a well-trained horse, others get their horses moving fancy and put mileage on them through consistent hard work and the passage of time. It can take years to build a top-line on some horses and the only way to do it is with correct riding. When that horse is now well trained, well muscled and ready to go, it is worth a lot of money!!! There are plenty of people who are still taking low-cost horses (from the track and elsewhere) and putting in the time, work and plenty of money (in installments!) to make them good eventers. You also complain that a jr rider on a fancy horse has done well and then does not do so well on a green horse the next year. That is no surprise. Hopefully, that rider will be a good horseman and take the years required to train the new horse to go like the schoolmaster who taught them the lessons necessary to take on a green horse. Take your jealousy at not being able to buy a schoolmaster and direct it towards the hard work needed to make your horse his best.

6-11-10
I have not used HayGain, but I highly recommend Hay Stretcher from Blue Seal. After struggling to keep weight on my skinny, worrying Tbred for the past three years, a lunch of HayStretcher kept weight on him through the winter AND packed on 100 pounds or so. I've also switched to Strategy for his regular feed - it can make Tbreds a little hot, but my guy is loving the combo! Good luck! Lisa Hida

6-10-10
Explanation of GMHA Waitlist Issue: It is understandable that the people who were waitlisted for GMHA were upset because it appeared that many incomplete entries were accepted over complete entries. However, it turns out that was not the case. The list that was posted came from the Event Entries program, which automatically compiles a list for the organizer that can be used to track the other items as they are received. When the draw was posted, the listing had not been updated on the computer to show that the competitors who entered electronically had in fact mailed in their documentation as required. This has happened before with other events and will likely happen again in the future. (Please be aware that if you enter electronically, you MUST still send in your coggins, signature page and check within 5 days in order for your entry to be honored.)
The electronic entry systems are new to most organizers and the programs are still being developed and fine-tuned. Please try not to assume the worst. We will try to provide explanations for questions like this more quickly in the future, but it is not always possible to respond immediately. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Katherine Cooper, Area I Chair.

6-11-10
Thank you, Katherine, for that explanation. I fully understand that not all of us who enter can get in. That's the nature of the game. But I was really upset when I started this because from what we could all see, many entries were not complete. When I called GMHA to protest, I did not get a justifiable response. I understand that dealing with new ways (computer-wise) to deal with situations can be tricky. Hopefully this conversation will help event organizers in the future to make sure that the information that is posted for the world to see is accurate. Sue Matte

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6-11-10
Thank you so much for this explanation, and the understanding that the delay was frustrating. I feel better knowing that everything was above board. I guess the lesson is that we have to be willing to wait until three weeks after opening day to make plans. I hope this doesn't discourage people from participating.

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6-5-10
Everyone is correct that GMHA is a wonderful event, but their handling of the wait list leaves a lot to be desired. I think a lot of the anger is from the wait list being published so late. If they filled on opening day, why did it take them three weeks to publish it (opening day was 4/20 and it came out 5/14)? This led a lot of people to believe that they got in. I also agree that incomplete entries should not be accepted and combine that with the lateness of the waitlist makes the list very suspicious to me. I'm afraid Hilary is wrong that everyone ultimately was accepted. I was on the wait list and I did not scratch, but am listed as scratched at this time. I hope GMHA will learn from this, but it has left a very sour feeling to a lot of us. Susan

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6-5-10
It appears that there are no more wait lists at GMHA. So everyone who was on a list has either scratched (your choice) or been admitted (Yay!). Perhaps before the hue and cry next time you can wait and see if you get to ride. Hilary

6-7-10
OK... just to clarify, it "appears" that everyone on the waitlist either got in or scratched. That's not true. Last Thursday the waitlists were eliminated and all who were still on them were listed as "scratched"... which was not true. I did not scratch voluntarily... GMHA scratched me. And the hue and cry began because GMHA went against USEA rules and entered incomplete entries before complete entries. That's the whole point of this conversation! Sue

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6-3-10
With an event like GMHA or Groton House (which have historically filled on opening day AND have wait lists) you should expect that there is a chance you will not get in- even if your entry is complete. If you then go and book non-refundable hotel rooms, plane tickets, etc. and are disappointed that you did not get in the fault should not be directed to the organizer (or organizers) of the event. They are doing all they can to run these events and with people complaining about not getting in- it just makes their job more frustrating. If you are concerned about housing for the event you could try camping (which is cheaper and doesn’t usually require early registration). Or, you could offer your hotel room out to another competitor that is attending the event. (Or you could list your request in the Competitor Housing section of the Times/Results
page. - Webmaster)
Looking at the trend of losing some of the larger and older events in our area we should be happy to support them in all their efforts to host us and accept the fact that sometimes we don’t get in- no matter when the entry was sent or how complete it was.

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6-1-10
I also got waitlisted for the GMHA horse trials this coming weekend. My dad flew from the Middle East to finally watch me compete... and we got put at the bottom of the waitlist. I sent my entry on opening day with the rest of my barn. My entry was complete. It baffles me that incomplete entries got accepted before complete entries.
Not only did my dad spend money for a plane ticket to fly here, we also lost money from our nonrefundable hotel rooms. Guess I won't compete there again.

6-3-10
Although I do not think incompleted entries should be taken over completed entries, people should realize that oversubscription happens at popular events. GMHA has really become a "destination" event. It is not GMHA's fault that they had an overwhelming amount of entries on opening day. Think about how many people are in Area i - GMHA has only 230 spots to fill and received over 300 entries from opening day alone. Having seen and taken part in the process of accepting entries at a venue such as this, it is not as easy as all seem to think. Juggling dressage times and division sizes, it's challenging!
There is no guarantee to getting into an event; a few years ago I was waitlisted at a large event in Florida and was FIRST on the waitlist for a few weeks and never got in. Sure, we lost money with plane tickets and hotels but would I use that as a reason to never enter that event again? Absolutely not. Should I have waited until I found out if I was actually accepted to buy plane tickets? Probably.
It's frustrating when you don't get into an event but think of the bright side of an oversubscribed event- maybe the economy is on an upswing! :-)

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6-1-10
I do not believe faxed entries are accepted. Many organizations do not consider a faxed document with signatures to be an original copy and will not accept the entry. In most cases, entries need to be completed via online or regular mail. I too submitted my information in complete form, on opening day, and was still wait listed. However, I did not request stabling - in the past, the office has implied that they give preference to those who stable. Kate

6-3-10
I agree with Kate, you can't fax entries. Either snail mail or online entries are accepted. I also agree with the "complete" entry status but with the online entries the coggins and signature page comes later (I think you have 5 days) so until they clear up the fact that EVERYTHING can be done online there are going to have problems.

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5-31-10
I would like to offer something for consideration. I entered online. I sent my additional information (signature page, Coggins etc.) via priority mail the day after (this is allowable based on the online statement that these things must be sent within 5 days). However, when the status was posted it said my things were missing, but in fact I verified that they had been received. This may be the case for others on the acceptance list. Please do not assume that all on that list that had things missing did not follow the rules. kchesson

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5-30-10
So what can we do about this issue? I sincerely appreciate your posting and beginning the discussion, and i think your suggestion to call GMHA was a good one. (I did that- and got the same response that you did) Is this just a case of "oh well, better luck next time"? Clearly official USEA rules for organizers were broken here. What can competitors do about that? These are expensive shows to run, and we very much appreciate their being offered and run well (and we can all agree that GMHA is a great event!), but they are also expensive shows to attend, and personally, I think that the competitor's rights should be as important as the organizer's.

5-30-10
I agree that it is a very hard job to organize these events. Having never organized one myself I don't know what goes into it, however, I think it is important to be clear about the rules and follow them. If you are trying to qualify or even just organize your summer you have to be able to plan ahead. We made hotel reservations ect., with the assumption that if we were punctual (faxing an entry at 7:30 on opening day) we would be able to ride. If it was just a case of too many entries not enough spots I would not be such a sore looser, but when you follow the rules and are still penalized it is hard to sit with. One thing that we can do is ask the USEA to clarify the rule and provide guidance. If we are wrong and GMHA was within their rights to accept incomplete entries than so be it. If not we can hope for a change. We all make mistakes and can learn from them. I hope we can resolve this and have fun eventing at GMHA in the fall.

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5-25-10
OK. Let's not get off topic here. I am so thrilled for GMHA that they are oversubscribed. It is my favorite place to compete. I wish that they would continue with the higher levels (intermediate), and if that means I have less of a chance of getting in, so be it. My original message was based on the fact that my COMPLETE entry was put on the wait list even though there were quite a few who were accepted but whose entries were not COMPLETE. Sue Matte

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5-24-10
I like GMHA and Groton House because you ride on two different days. I think they, and Millbroook, are the only events that allow lower level riders do their dressage and jump on one day, and the xc on a different day. I have to say, I really dislike the one day venues. ... plus, of course, the grounds and courses of Groton House, Millbrook and GMHA are gorgeous. I know there are other great smaller venues. I think the demand for these three is the atmosphere, the courses, the history. It's hard to beat.

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5-23-10
It's ironic that several other events are barely filling the minimum number of horses and yet GMHA oversubscribes on the opening date. I know that events like GMHA and Groton House are nice, but what about all the other BN/N events in Area 1? There are a lot of different options, why not support a smaller venue? Tracey's point about showing more preference to levels that are seldom offered in Area 1 (Prelim and up) should be repeated. It's unfortunate that a lot of riders need to trailer to VA just to go Prelim.

5-24-10
Agreed!!

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5-22-10
It is very weird. I competed in Area II last year and this was NEVER an issue. Almost all events took online entries (which is the way of the future) and you could send it in the week before closing date and still get in. Everyone made fun of me scrambling to get all the pieces together for opening date! It is just so strange that the demand is SO high for these events - perhaps they need to charge more (a little supply-demand action). However - it is hard to not let the pros in - they draw spectators, they bring may students and horses, so keeping a professional happy is definitely advantageous.
I think they simple need to re-work the rules for online entries. They greatly simplify organizers work and are definitely only going to get more and more popular. But they need to make it clear if there is an advantage to doing it online or by post to be fair!

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5-22-10
I encountered this roblem when I competed at GMHA a couple of years ago. I (an adult) was wait listed in my division (BN) and another barnmate was accepted (junior novice rider). I contacted GMHA to see where I was on the wait list. We hadn't requested stabling, but the person I spoke with told me that I had a better shot of getting in if I requested stabling, because they prefer to fill the stalls to make money. Now, I don't know if this is still true, but that's what the person told me. I changed my entry to stabling needed, and ended up getting in. Andrea

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5-22-10
I am perturbed to read about the incomplete entries given preference over complete entries. I do show secretary duties myself for a dressage organization, and when we have an incomplete entry, we put it over in the "incomplete pile" and date it. Those entries will be entered when we get the missing information. For an event that is so popular such as GMHA (love the organization, fully support with donations and volunteer time), they need to institute this policy as stated in the USEA rulebook. It is just not fair to the riders who are doing it "right" the first time out. Everyone should have their coggins by now, signatures should be filled out way in advance. ... There is no excuse for incomplete entries, nor should they be given any priority. It is like showing up to an event without your riding boots! Riding is about details and trying to do everything better and this includes the entry process as well.

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5-22-10
I to was extremely disappointed not to get into GMHA but I was foolish enough to be a day late with my entry. Because I was late I didn't even get wait listed they just returned my paperwork, what I am really shocked to see is that the prelim division only had 41 entries accepted on their original list and now there are 5 scratches with only 2 people left on the waiting list. How can this be fair when all the other divisions have 5o or so accepted entries. When you look at the HT's that are held in Area 1, out of the 34 events held ONLY 16 run Pelim, please events, give us a chance to run our horses and compete in the sport, yes somemtimes we may make a mistake but this really makes it hard for us to be able to continue with the sport as who wants to, or can afford to drive 10 hours to another area competition. Also, give us a heads up as soon as possible if you know you are not going to accept our entry so we can make other plans. I for one would have tried to go to Hitching Post as there is no other Prelim event in Area 1 until Groton House!! Tracey Young

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5-20-10
I kindly suggest that GMHA may want to review the section of the 2010 USEA Rulebook # EV 106 "Entries- Withdrawals"; subsection 2- "Entry Forms". Unless I am mistaken, it clearly states that incomplete entries (regardless of postmark) and entries postmarked before opening day should be placed at the bottom of the list.

5-21-10
Exactly!!!!!!

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5-20-10
I don't know exactly how GMHA selects entries but I sent my complete entry via snail mail postmarked on opening day (didn't notice the online option!) and my entry was accepted. I'm an amateur who isn't with a trainer. I have been waitlisted sometimes and gotten in sometimes. Hilary

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5-20-10
i also was disappointed in how gmha has handled the oversubscription. if this event is run over 2 days whay can they only accomodate 230 riders and other events can accomodate 300 plus? also it does not make people want to donate to gmha. what about preference to gmha members?

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5-20-10
I am a professional. I entered two horses, both entries complete on opening day, and both were accepted. Not all of my students were accepted. One in particular entered two horses, both entries complete on opening day, and only her lower level horse was accepted. She was not allowed to substitute her higher level horse instead.
What GMHA said they did was separate the entries by division and then do a random draw. I have no problem with this, except that incomplete entries were accepted before complete ones. Two riders in the Training level even seemed to be missing their entire entries - horse name, owner name, sig page, coggins, etc. These riders appeared (at the time entries were posted) to have submitted phone or in-person entries, except that "payment" was not listed as missing.
I was feeling put out that my students whose entries were complete on opening day had not gotten in and these two riders had. Then I went and re-read the Omnibus listing - it only specifies that PAYMENT is required for acceptance. So incomplete entries that do include payment were equal in the lottery. It seems to me that "complete" entries should reasonably be prioritized, but that is not my call. The event has stuck with the terms it listed in the Omnibus. Other events do it differently and list it differently (see Groton House's listing in contrast.) Jeanie Clarke

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5-20-10
I feel your pain. I sent my entry out the day before opening day so that it would get there on opening day and I didnt get in. I had a complete entry and fully agree. I was supose to go novice as well and I sent my complete entry in the day before opening day and wasnt even put on the wait list. They mailed my entry and check back today. Very disapointed.

5-20-10
The postmark is key on your entry: it may NOT be any sooner than the opening day. The day you guess your entry may arrive is not relevant.

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5-19-10
I agree with all. Great that GMHA is oversubscribed. However, why are most of the entries professionals and their students? How is this a random draw of all that entered on opening day? Coincidence? If the organizers are interested in running a competition for professionals only, then maybe that should be stated in the omnibus. -Professionals get preference and we will fill in around them.- It is frustrating to have my schedule set for the summer, with a goal of trying to qualify for the T3D to then only have to shuffle everything around. I too had my entry faxed first thing opening day and sent in by snail mail and yet I am in the middle of the wait list. I don't usually post on here, but this happened last year as well. Unfortunately, it has left me slightly bitter with the whole office/politics involved. In my opinion it is not a random draw, but a who's who.

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5-19-10
i agree i also sent a complete entry on opening date (via snail mail) and was wait listed, GMHA is one of my favorite venues but i thought it was very unfair that incomplete entries were accepted over complete. Jaime

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5-16-10
I completely agree with your disappointment. I sent my "COMPLETE" entry in on opening date and I am also wait-listed. Very disappointing

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5-16-10
I totally agree. It is very frustrating to see that incomplete entries are taken before complete ones that are also sent postmarked on opening day. When we used to only do this by snail mail you would open the entries from opening day, see which were complete, then select from them first. If you still had room after that you would accept incomplete entries from opening day, and then from the days that followed. Why should the rules change now that we are entering online? I am glad that GMHA is popular and filled, that is great. I am annoyed at being treated unfairly, especially as i am a GMHA member and like to support their organization. Genie

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5-15-10
I can not agree more. I faxed my entry at 7:30 AM on opening day and sent the complete entry snail mail as well. I was very disappointed to read that we had been wait listed for training when many of the accepted entries were lacking most of the required info. I similar thing happened to us last year. It feels like a very random process. I worry about favoritism. It seems like the professionals all got in without a problem. sarah

5-20-10
It seems "random" because it IS random. That's the point. Random selection means that everyone has an equal chance. Did "all" of the pros get in? How do you know that there aren't many who entered and didn't get in, or entered more than one horse and only had one accepted? I'm a professional; some times I get in, sometimes I don't. Sometimes all of my students get in, sometimes only some of them do. One year a fellow professional had 12 students enter; 6 of them got in, he didn't. That's the definition of random, i.e. fair and unbiased.

6-3-10
Random is fine... but you seem to be missing the point here. It's only supposed to be random for the "complete" entries. Too many incomplete entries were included in the random draw. According to USEA rules, the incomplete entries are supposed to be put in a separate pile and once all the complete entries are randomly drawn... if there is room, the incomplete entries are randomly drawn. That's a fair process.

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5-15-10
If it makes you feel any better, this has happened to me mutiple times (back in the good ole' days when many events were oversubscribed). I assumed that accepted riders were riding multiple horses or had an inside advantage. Would a rules guru or someone with knowledge on how events are filled like to comment? (Not good for you but it is nice to see GMHA oversubscribed!)

6-10-10
I think the concern should be more of how we can encourage more events to run upper levels. I personally was planning on moving up to Intermediate at GMHA, as I am comfortable there and feel that it would be a good move up. Now, as they aren't running it, my only choices are GHF, Stuart and Millbrook, neither of which I feel would be a good move up course! So I guess my thought is, how can we get our upper levels back? I am perfectly willing to volunteer all my spare time when I go to these events and have in the past. So, what can we do?

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6-10-10
I personally am not a Prelim rider and probably never will be. But I am very dissappointed to see that GMHA and other events in the area are not offering Intermediate or above anymore. As far as letting Prelim riders ride without a waitlist, I don't agree with that. Maybe just don't accept as many in the lower levels. I do understand that the majority of riders are in the lower levels (me included), but I'm not sure its so necessary to have so many divisions in each level... as long as the demand for the upper levels is there. I know it would make my chances of getting in lower, but I really hate to see the upper levels getting phased out.

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6-8-10
I think that cash incentives is a tricky answer. I do think some efforts ought to be made to encourage events to keep offering Prelim and up, and maybe encourage others to consider adding a level. Things like educational opportunities for course design/building (how can we maximize limited space/resources?) or a program where some portable fences are shared between venues to cut costs. A lot of times it comes down to land and manpower, not just money. Where is the support system for venues? Either way, it makes sense to put some preference to upper level competitors over lower level riders (if they send in complete entries on time) in order to encourage those levels to continue. Even if you aren't ever planning on riding Prelim, who wants to go to events where everyone is running Novice? I love being able to watch the levels above me compete for education ...I don't mind the possibility of getting waitlisted.

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6-7-10
Sad that there are no upper level any more..must be the economy..I live near Great Walls in Hardwick,MA that had Advanced and terrific vendors.. no more.

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6-6-10
i agree with the poster who said this item ought to be discussed at the area 1 meeting. i think a possible solution to be discussed might be some sort of incentive for events to run higher divisions- perhaps in the form of financial assistance from the area. this would encourage more events to hold these divisions, which i believe is a respectable end goal- and would potentially encourage more riders to achieve that level- rather than simply accepting all prelim entries over other entries, which seems unfair and will likely only anger us lower-level riders.

6-7-10
The point is there are many events for the lower level riders/horses within area 1. Therefore why not prmote the higher levels at these events. There are less riders that enter the higher levels in area 1 so why not allow those spots to be filled first. Events are generally over subscribed due to the number of lower level entries.

6-8-10
i actually was addressing exactly the issue that there aren't very many upper level events- if you read what i wrote, i suggested coming up with a plan to encourage more events to hold higher divisions- that way, the upper level riders who are concerned about the lack of available venues will be happy, and it would be a solution less likely to frustrate the lower level riders who, like it or not, make up most of the area.

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6-5-10
Kami it looks like your concerns have been addressed! There are riders in the Prelim division at GMHA this weekend who were not on the GMHA Entry Status Accepted Riders or Wait List. Maybe they were last minute entries that the secretary thought deserved to be accepted. Hope this helps!

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6-5-10
Sounds like this might be a good agenda item for the Area 1 meeting.

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6-5-10
Kami - I share your concern. As I know you recognize, there is a fine balance, and a necessity to balance, the opportunities for all riders and horses at all levels offered in Area 1. That being said, I fear Area 1 is quickly loosing many of their Preliminary level competitors to other Area competitions. There are a scarce number of Preliminary + level events compared to BN, N, and even T level competitions in Area 1. I recognize the substantial costs and time involved to offer and maintain Preliminary+ competitions. In order to build my season and work towards my goals, I am pursuing competitions in Area 2 due to the abundance of competitions at the level and the greater likelihood of being accepted. Our Area has greatly changed since the 1990's (GHF offered an Olympic qualified, Huntington held 3 events including an Intermediate), and our Area seems to have fallen behind the times (I realize this is often due to other outside forces, no fault to anyone in our region) while other Areas grow and expand events offering all levels of competition with great fury.
I whole-heartedly adore Area 1, our competitions, private farm owners who generously allow us to ride on their land, and everyone who make these events possible. I make this statement with the greatest respect towards these people and the tireless hours they invest so we may continue to enjoy this sport and the special "eventing partnership" with our horse(s). Katie

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